Week 3: 02/20/25 tec talk

Week 3: 02/20/25

Link to google questionnaire:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSez4IGY2Cc4VEPzmUFGvvTqBjyCUfL4HyAJfT-b_sgegeX6qg/viewform

Links to Archived online Rainbow Groups:

https://bliss-fire.com/

https://web.archive.org/web/20161012112910/http://www.bliss-fire.com/

http://bliss-fire.com/Stories.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20161012112910/http://www.bliss-fire.com/

http://bliss-fire.com/Stories.htm

https://www.welcome-home.org/butterfly-bills 

https://demo.peepso.com/

Username/Password: 

Admin: demo/demo

User: william/william

Thursday Tech Talk Signal Group

https://signal.group/#CjQKILVrgX76H49S9E-pH7C559bbftHpO2NhIeCKdg3BbDd-EhClXlF5HSCEXIu_zP7qHTsA

Public Comment #1:

Problem of facebook:

promotes negative posts

mines data

Is there a way we can have RF communicate which are non-commercial, don't mine data, nor exploits user's attention. No advertisements.

Non-specific agreements at the moment.

Peepso: facebook clone, private facebook.

Public Comment #2:

What's to do about spammers? How to keep them out?

How to moderate (create oversight) ?

Public Comment #3:

Concern that using facebook,"You are the product"

Using products consciously

Public Comment #4:

How do we support cash/check/money order donations?

Treasurer must have a quality reputation.

Public Comment #5:

Ownership and moderation.

Public Comment #6: (WH2.0)

Google captcha to avoid scammers.

The more everyone searches for another form, the more it defeats the "purpose" of getting off facebook. "facebook's objective is to create division"

"welcomehome 2.0 is a platform which already functions and has a live form"

Public Comment #7:

a platform which respects privacy and is free to use.

Possibly using an AI to create a platform.

Public Comment #8:

In favor of avoiding the use of AI.

Public Comment #9:

Concerns regarding start up fee.

Concern regarding moderation and ownership.

What can we learn from poor facebook moderation?

Concern regarding collecting money under the name of rainbow

"slippery slope"

monetization could cause downfall of rainbow in long run

Public Comment #10:

Host Comments #1:

Once platform is started, how do we keep it going? Passing responsibility?

Possibility of attempting multiple platforms, then observing where family comes up.

In regards to cash handling, only need to raise money every year.

Strongly against fees

Invite only, but not exclusionary to. (new rainbows/non-rainbows)

Weak filter which prevents spammers.

We can community fund this, but one person will have to use a credit card. 

How to prevent "banning" as a personal attack

Can we think of other ways to prevent spammers? 

Can we prevent it from becoming negative?

There can be online community experiences which were positive for months at a time, but this eventually devolved as people cannot feel empathy as well through a computer vs in person. 

Moderated forum vs non-moderated forum

As a means to control/segregate negativity 

Public Comment #11:

If we do go forward with peepso, why should we trust the developers? What if they change their policies in the future?

Public Comment #12: (WH 2.0)

Avoid using AI. 

AI will defeat a perceived purpose

non-AI will maintain "true" rainbow character

How will we keep this from devolving into another facebook

Public Comment #13:

In defence of multiple facebook groups. Rainbow as different camps to fit different interests and personality. We could def do better than facebook. But the facebook situation isn't as bad as one may perceive it to me

Public Comment #14:

Privacy, Data mining. 

Avoid AI if possible.

Donation system. Someone who's reputation isn't questioned. 

Invite only, its how rainbow got started anyways.

Can we prevent negativity? No. It is what it is. As a collective, we need to be strong enough to not let nay-sayers take us down. We just have to want it bad enough.

Potential of blocking ip addresses, we should avoid this. 

Public Comment #15:

Invite only/Hybrid

Some sections are invite only, some are public.

Crypocurrency is a good way to manage magic hat, because transactions are public. Anyone can view transactions at anytime. 

Comment:

Even if we use crypto, some people do not wish to use any form of 

financial transaction on the internet.

Public Comment #16:

altgatheringrainbow - old user net group/google group. Fully functioning place run by Rob Shevoy and company. It was not admin'd in any way. It was limited in its visual scope. it had thumbnail and you could post links. you could write. type. write stories. it only lasted a few years after 2003 because facebook happening. 2-3 years it lasted. there was an archive. There was a written story telling form. the stories which were told at that time were fresh in our mind. those stories were golden. The reason facebook took over because it just worked. but at the time it was more simple. What you really want are the stories. these should be able to be archived or it will not amount to much. 

Public Comment #17:

Rainbow is not an entity which sells products for profit. 

we are individuals who gather in the forest and meditated on peace. 

Public Comment #18: (WH 2.0)

We've reached out to Rob, considering OG WH. WH is going to be passed into his son. He is also difficult to get ahold of. We copied his site into a zipfile, Prop 1, Prop 1 hidden, Butterfly bills, Rainbowgroup.net ... This information is also preserved in wayback machine but better quality. 

W didn't want to deal with the 501(c) because in my opinion it's not rainbow unless its disaster and relief. We're supposed to not be apart of the gov't. Tin regard to security. we could have forced a log in but then we'd have to get peoples email and all that. So we made making profiles an option. because to us that's another form of censorship. 

Without darkness, we can't have light. We can try to control negativity but tat's the way it goes.

This is why we have moderated and unmoderated forms.

We are also playing with the concept that communities can vote to take down a post. 

Public Comment #19:

the reason we were on facebook because we were already on facebook. We weren't looking for rainbow there, we were already there.

so it will be difficult to get people to migrate to another platform. especially if we attempt to do outreach.

I liked the old site, what's the problem with going back to that?

Comment:

Downside of FB when people use rainbow groups, people will 

use people's facebook profiles, personal info about them, people will use their FB against them. There has been stalking 

cases. 

Public Comment #19:

Building trust between people. Groups i use on facebook are with people i know and have built trust with over the years. There's a network. Whoever is starting this, must be a person who is well trusted. Who do we trust to be the owner, treasurer? Who to let in? I think if we have a little more control over it, than we have on FB, then that might help issues with trust. 

Public Comment #20:

It takes money for the world to go around. People don't think that's the reality but it is. at the same time, it is a real thorn. If someone wanted to destroy OCCUPY, and trop 10,000k in different PCCUPY groups, it would have destroyed it. I can gaurantee that. One OG FB page, The rainbow Gathering by Flower (2015). in 2016, dumbphones became smartphones. We had an admin group, a separate fb page. to hash out things. one of the things that came out was. well this is rainbow and we all need to be on equal footing. so they convinced flower to unregister from the page and what was left was admins. this was a mistake. you need one person who can pull the plug 'nd scrap the page is necessary. hen people started having private pages on FB. but it's not really private, the point of facebo9ok is that it's public. it's just not what it. there was a semi-official rainbow, a new one each year. these pages kept collecting members. it was supposed to be you talk about that one specific rainbow, you get into about it, go there, then maybe use the page to discuss. when it a rollover page, year after year. people don't unenroll themselves from pages. so it gets to a pile on. only timeline posting. then commenting came in. people started commenting on really old threads, which makes no sense. Rainbow online is a great thing, but it will never be rainbow on the ground. there are things you cant do, like be there to physically be present with.

Public Comment #21:

crypto ATMs

issues with non-moderation, child sexual abuse material.

Public Comment #22:

crypto is a gamble. 

peace keepers have to make sure everyone stays safe, even if they are in the wrong and hurt someone. 

Public Comment #23:

External sites are a gamble as they charge, data mine, ect.

AI wont be bad as long as we know the person who wrote it. 

Trust the people around you , ya'll

Public Comment #24:

Echoing comment #20 about old platforms. direct timeline, non-algorithmic timelines are preferred. 

Public Comment #25:

Personal information

this would require a full time commitment, someone to do this year after year as a lifelong(ish) commitment. how do we transfer ownership? this presents issues with using safe deposit boxes, keeping personal info safe, ect. 

Host Comment #2:

Resonate with simple interface idea. Welcomehome/WH2.0 already has this. A more text based platform. 

But there is no right answer. we can have multiple platforms that all work.

If we did an invite only. there is an advantage to word of mouth. because the network grows, when we do human to human contact, it grows organically. so if we don't advertise this platform, we could very much delay negativity from for right on the sight. 

Facebook is encouraging that we hate on each other and is encouraging conflict. because it's more engaging, and this is not what we want.

in regards to ai, it's just a computer which does so many calculations per second. there isn't anything evil about ai. just as there isn't anything inherently wrong with computers. on the other side, ai is being used against us on facebook. our data and attention is being mined by AI and Facebook. Noting is evil, noting is good, it just depends on how it is used.

ego is a huge problem on some of the pages of people who use them. so we need a way to remove ego from page ownership, but we do need someone who can pull the plug if we need to.

the other notion of abusers. what do we do about desired exclusion of people who are perceived as an abuser by some but who are perceived as a non-abuser by others. 

Public Comment #26:

Foundation of rainbow is anyone with a belly button is accepted. but you don't necessarily have to accept people on these terms. 

Public Comment #27:

Discord is preferred to zoom.

Public Comment #28:

With zoom, we've had issues with having several hundred people on one zoom. 

Public Comment #29:

In response to discord, discord does no work on all devices. 

Public Comment #30:

amount of facebook notifications are an issue. too many facebook groups, cross posting is annoying. 

in favor of building a site from ground up. 

reimagine things. we have the ability to do some good.

what we make may even get adapted by babylon.

the end experience should be that a beginner doesn't have to log in, if they just want information about rainbow. 

then as people get deeper into rainbow then it can become more serious.

I strongly agree with invite only.

create a rainbow wiki such that we can share accurately information about ourselves.

Host Comment #3:

Consensus based administration of the site

Public Comment #31: